[Loadstone] Porting to Android

Shawn Kirkpatrick shawn at loadstone-gps.com
Mon Oct 26 23:58:16 GMT 2015

The final word on the android topic for now. I've updated the profile on the 
funding page https://www.gofundme.com/loadstone-gps to include android and 
any other platform that may come along.
At the moment the iphone version is a go, the mac hardware has arrived, is 
plugged in and ready for me to start learning and coding.
The android version is still just a wish, there's still no android hardware 
and no funds to obtain it.
To be clear, I would like loadstone to be available on as many platforms as 
possible, ios, android, even windows phone if there's any demand.
I'm leaving the android version in the hands of the android user community, 
if it's wanted then funding will be needed. I would also say that developer 
help would also be needed. Me trying to write two different versions of 
loadstone for two different platforms at once really would be a bit much. At 
this moment that's the best I can do.

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015, Milos Przic wrote:

> Hi Shawn,
> I would be ready to pay 20 or 30 euro, may be even more, for Loadstone app 
> with exploration mode and most of the functions it had on Symbian if it were 
> ported to Android. I am sure that many people who live in the developing 
> countries where Android is predominant would do the same. Also, consider 
> Russia and China, that have more Android than Apple products among the sided, 
> as well as among the blind. So the market for Android would be even more 
> profitable than that for Ios, and not only because of the bigger market but 
> also because of the fact that you can use a cheaper piece of hardware for 
> testing: and if the app works on a phone like, say, Samsung Galaxy s3 mini, 
> it will most surely work on other devices. Then you do not have to buy 
> another phone, but you can make a beta, and all the subscribers to your beta 
> testing on google play would give you the problems with their specific phones 
> and possible solutions, so that you could work on it effectively without 
> paying a penny for an expensive hardware.
> About Dave's words, please consider the fact that everyone gets nervous when 
> a non-constructive criticism starts coming, like what Dale did, with you 
> telling the things that were simply too subjective for a developer. Do not 
> talk about law and consequences, because the thread will become a lawsute 
> instead of a constructive discussion on how to render our favourite app 
> available for the most custommers, and that is where numbers matter, because 
> I can almost garantee that there are more Android users out there than those 
> of Ios, and Loadstone is for everyone, not for the privileged ones that can 
> aford an IPhone, but will surely complain because it is not free. With the 
> Android comunity you would be able to even profit a little, at least to cover 
> your expenses, and have more users have your app, which would then surely 
> make a greater motivation for you. Please, consider all this facts, and I beg 
> you to finally do it in an objective and self-critical manner. Because if you 
> say "yes, I am objective" it excludes self-criticism, and without 
> self-criticism we do not advance and don't get better.
> Thanks, and I think that this will be my last message on this topic.
> Best,
>         Miloš Pržić
> Twitter: MilosPrzic
> Skype: Milosh-hs
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Kirkpatrick" 
> <shawn at loadstone-gps.com>
> To: <loadstone at loadstone-gps.com>
> Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 9:21 AM
> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Porting to Android
>> I'm going to let most of this thread drop but I do want to address a couple 
>> of valid points that did come up.
>> There is an explanation as to why the current version of loadstone hasn't 
>> had any updates in quite a while. In order to sign a symbian program so it 
>> could be installed to a nokia phone we had to use a process called symbian 
>> signed. This process involved paying $200 per year for a publisher id and 
>> $20 per program signed. The RNIB was sponsoring our publisher id. This 
>> meant they were covering the $200 per year and providing all the 
>> documentation needed for the publisher id. Sometime around 2010 they 
>> decided to end there sponsorship. I forget the exact reason, either our 
>> contact person left or it was some kind of funding decision but it left us 
>> without a publisher id. This meant that we could not sign any new loadstone 
>> releases. We tried to get another sponsor for the publisher id but this was 
>> not a trivial process. Only a valid company could obtain a publisher id, an 
>> individual could not get one and it required extensive documentation and 
>> proof as well as the $200 per year fee. We were not able to find another 
>> company willing to take this on. Then Microsoft bought Nokia and killed the 
>> symbian signing process 2 years earlier than expected. This effectively 
>> killed any further development on the symbian series 60 platform, not just 
>> for us but for everyone. During this time the loadstone code was being 
>> updated but couldn't be released to the general public in a usable form. 
>> People can still download the very latest version of the source code and 
>> compile it if they want but the only way to install it to a device is to 
>> have a jailbroken phone. All this means that the current symbian series60 
>> version of loadstone will have no further updates.
>> Now to address the money and open source issue.
>> The reason I went to croud funding for a loadstone port is a simple matter 
>> of math. No matter how I ran the numbers there was just no way I was going 
>> to be able to fund a port of any kind. Even if I maxed out everything it 
>> still wouldn't be enough. I've put over a decade in to the open source free 
>> version of loadstone and been glad to do it but the sad truth is that it's 
>> drained all my resources. We've had some donations over the years but for 
>> the most part the loadstone project has been funded by the loadstone 
>> development team from our own pockets. This has included buying various 
>> phones for testing, signing the releases, and running the database, 
>> website, and mailing lists all from our personal computers.
>> I'm not sure if the loadstone port for the iphone (and android if that ever 
>> happens) will be open source or not, I'm not exactly sure how that works 
>> with these platforms. This bothers me, I happen to think that software 
>> should be free/open source but if there are going to be fees to maintain 
>> and develope it then they have to come from somewhere. It's either charge a 
>> small fee per copy or rely on donations. Donations seem to be hit and miss 
>> so it looks like the fee per copy method will have to do unless something 
>> else can be worked out.
>> If you're wondering if a port will actually happen, the answer is yes. 
>> Croud funding may lack accountability but since my own parents funded the 
>> mac hardware that changes things. It basically means that come hell or high 
>> watter I have to get something working, sooner is better. There's also the 
>> fact that the loadstone site has been online since 2006 so it's not like 
>> we're hard to find if we don't keep our word.
>> Now, for the rather serious matter. You stated that I posted a pack of 
>> lies. You stated this on a public forum. It's been a while since I've 
>> studied law but I'm pretty sure you're getting dangerously close to slander 
>> unless you can prove what you say. You're going to have to back up what you 
>> said or there may be consequences. I am not prepared to sit back and take 
>> groundless insults especially over what may come down to a difference of 
>> opinion or changing information about a rapidly developing software 
>> platform.
>> On Thu, 22 Oct 2015, Dave Mielke wrote:
>>> [quoted lines by Dale Leavens on 2015/10/22 at 18:26 -0400]
>>> Hi:
>>>> Dave,
>>>> Frankly it is you who doesn't like Shawn's decision to port to the
>>>> iPhone. He has given his reasons. Just because you don't like them
>>>> doesn't mean they are invalid or that he is some sort of spoon fed
>>>> blind person.
>>> No, not at all. You're making a huge assumption - that I even care if 
>>> Loadstone
>>> is ported. Quite frankly (to borrow your term), I don't. I'm entirely 
>>> content
>>> with applications that use Google Maps.
>>> I've used Loadstone for usre, and I did like it, but it's now been years 
>>> since
>>> it's had any kind of update. I've no guarantee, therefore, that it'll ever 
>>> have
>>> any kind of meaningful updates. All I hear is "give me money and maybe 
>>> I'll
>>> work on it". Quite frankly (there I go borrowing your phrase again), there 
>>> are
>>> those of us who've poored our lives into open source software without 
>>> asking
>>> for even a penny even though we've had significant expenses that we gladly
>>> covered with personal funds even though we have families and lots of other
>>> financial obligations.
>>> So, quite frankly (there I go again - thank you for the phrase), be 
>>> careful
>>> before you cast stones.
>>> -- 
>>> Dave Mielke           | 2213 Fox Crescent | The Bible is the very Word of 
>>> God.
>>> Phone: 1-613-726-0014 | Ottawa, Ontario   | http://Mielke.cc/bible/
>>> EMail: Dave at Mielke.cc | Canada  K2A 1H7   | http://FamilyRadio.org/
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