[Loadstone] Openstreetmap

Shawn Kirkpatrick shawn at loadstone-gps.com
Tue Jul 7 02:43:12 BST 2009


What's fair use would depend on what country you're in. Nokia and garmin 
haven't expressly refused access to loadstone but they haven't exactly made 
any effort to help either. With these kinds of formats you may hit another 
problem, even if it's legal to access the data breaking the encryption may 
not be. Again this depends on the country. For our purposes it's just much 
easier to use publically available data rather than trying to untangle the 
mess of copyright.

On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Barr, Les wrote:

> Hi Shawn,
>
> Maybe someone else can answer whether RFB&D, the U.S. Library of Congress,
> etc., as a courtesy actually first asks "permission" from the copyright
> holder before digitizing recordings for distribution, but I am under the
> impression recordings made for the purpose of distributing to persons with
> blindness or print disabilities were legitimate legal exceptions to
> copyright, as long as the original copyright notice was displayed.  AS we
> know, once such books or information are distributed, technically anything
> is copiable.
>
> Similarly, schools copy everything to text books, magazine articles,
> digitized recordings, and anything and everything under the "fair use
> doctrine" exception to copyright, and without being required to obtain
> leave/permission to copy and distribute.  Why wouldn't digitized street map
> data similarly be excluded under the fair use exception when the data was
> intended for use by blind persons to educate themselves about public streets
> and points of interest for knowledge and personal safety?
>
> Have either Nokia and/or Garmin Maps expressly refused Loadstone users
> access to map data for use with LoadStone GPS software?
>
> Thanks for the discussion,
>
> Les
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shawn Kirkpatrick" <shawn at loadstone-gps.com>
> To: <loadstone at loadstone-gps.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 6:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>
>
> If the world worked propperly you'd be right but as it is the copyright laws
> can only be described as insane. Even for things like books on tape the
> original author or rights holder has to give permission before it can be
> done. The same would apply to maps. Part of the problem thoe is that once
> something's digital it can be transfered to anyone. So even if you got
> permission to use something like garmin maps there'd be nothing to stop that
> data from becoming available to the general public. In an open source
> project like loadstone that's the whole point, to be able to share all data
> collected with everyone.
>
> On Mon, 6 Jul 2009, Barr, Les wrote:
>
>> Since this was raised and just for discussion:  Why would providing access
>> to persons with visual impairments to otherwise inaccessible materials
>> (such
>> as Garmin maps, Nokia maps, etc. maps) be a legitimate "fair use
>> exception"
>> to possible copyrighted information which is contained within the public
>> domain and publicly and readily available on the internet?  e.g.
>> Copyrighted
>> books made available to persons with visual impairment on tape, etc. are
>> not
>> considered illegal.  I am not seeing a distinction with copyrighted
>> digital
>> maps being made accessible for like purposes for education of similar
>> persons for the purpose of educating persons with disabilities to public
>> streets/information.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Les
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <monty at loadstone-gps.com>
>> To: <loadstone at loadstone-gps.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 10:42 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Can you please be very careful when discussing the practice of map-data
>> altering when it comes to licensed map-data such as Garman's maps, Nokia's
>> maps and other similar map-data sets on this list.
>>
>> Map-data such asGarman Maps do not provide license to alter them in any
>> way.
>>
>> We can not discuss illegal activities on here so please take this
>> discussion off-list or tread very carefully so as not to violate any
>> terms.
>>
>> Monty
>>
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Jun 2009, Cearbhall O'Meadhra wrote:
>>
>>> Sounds like these might be in an image format rather than any coded form
>>> which would be
>>> needed for conversion to Loadstone.
>>>
>>> Can you find out if Garmin would sell the map to you in a spread sheet
>>> form?
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Cearbhall
>>> Good design enables - Bad design disables
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> T:(01) 2864623 M: 083 33 234 87 E: cearbhall.omeadhra at idd.ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com
>>> [mailto:loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com] On Behalf Of Ömer Yesiltas
>>> Sent: 30 June 2009 16:08
>>> To: loadstone at loadstone-gps.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>>
>>> Hi, the garmin map file's extension is img, i tried opening it with
>>> powerIso
>>> but it says unsupported format. i have found a program called mapEdit, it
>>> opens the file, says this not the map itself, this is a map container and
>>> shows the maps in the img file. but cannot extract or convert it because
>>> the
>>> map is locked.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra at idd.ie>
>>> To: <loadstone at loadstone-gps.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:29 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi V,
>>>
>>> If you have the maps themselves I will be happy to take a look at them
>>> and
>>> see if they can be used. If they are locked into a Garmin program then
>>> you
>>> may not be able to do anything with them as this is to protect the Garmin
>>> product. However, if you have extracted them into any format I will take
>>> a
>>> look at them and advise if they can be converted.
>>>
>>> If you download an OSM map for your entire area - my last one had over
>>> 30,00
>>> entries! The entire file can be converted and then you can select the
>>> points
>>> that you want more easily. I can appreciate that extracting each point
>>> from
>>> the OSM and other services would e very tedious and is not worth the
>>> effort.
>>> These files are very big and it is hard to extract the points one at a
>>> time.
>>> After conversion each entry is reduced to only nine fields and then it is
>>> easier to manage the points individually.
>>>
>>> Let me know what you want to do.
>>>
>>>
>>> All the best,
>>>
>>> Cearbhall
>>> Good design enables - Bad design disables
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> T:(01) 2864623 M: 083 33 234 87 E: cearbhall.omeadhra at idd.ie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com
>>> [mailto:loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com] On Behalf Of Ömer Yesiltas
>>> Sent: 30 June 2009 12:49
>>> To: loadstone at loadstone-gps.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>>
>>> Hi, i need to convert some maps to loadstone  format or to a format
>>> convertable to loadstone such as csv etc. i have original garmin and
>>> route66
>>> map files but could not succeed converting them in any way. actually
>>> there
>>> are a few programs to open them but the maps are locked and cannot be
>>> used
>>> with pc. they only can be used when the programs installed to the phone.
>>> i
>>> am not sure if this is an illegal thing but i wish to use these data with
>>> loadstone. because i do not have any maps for the area to use with
>>> loadstone
>>> and using geocoder and extracting from nokia maps and route66 is a very
>>> long
>>> tedious process.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Cearbhall O'Meadhra" <cearbhall.omeadhra at idd.ie>
>>> To: <loadstone at loadstone-gps.com>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:00 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello Lex,
>>>>
>>>> I would be happy to help you out with this conversion if you forward
>>>> the OSM file to me. I have a set of conversion tools that I developed
>>>> in excel and would be happy to covert the OSM file for you if you find
>>>> the present procedure too difficult.
>>>>
>>>> My email address is shown below.
>>>>
>>>> All the best,
>>>>
>>>> Cearbhall
>>>> Good design enables - Bad design disables
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> T:(01) 2864623 M: 083 33 234 87 E: cearbhall.omeadhra at idd.ie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com
>>>> [mailto:loadstone-bounces at loadstone-gps.com] On Behalf Of Lex
>>>> Sent: 29 June 2009 18:31
>>>> To: loadstone at loadstone-gps.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [Loadstone] Openstreetmap
>>>>
>>>>     29.06.2009 20:22, David Reynolds ?????:
>>>>> Unfortunately, it doesn't offer an xml format. png, svga, and some
>>>>> other graphics formats, but not xml.
>>>> The last choice is something like "osm data" -- it is indeed a xml.
>>>> Get it.
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>>
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